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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5711
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Posted - 2014.12.11 18:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Thought about it for a bit and realized that the splash resistance to sentinels was primarily for fighting tanks... Which mostly no longer do splash. Missile tanks aren't HORRIBLE for fighting infantry... But they aren't great either.
I'll still scare off an ADS before he ever drops a killshot on me.
And since REs seem to bypass the splash resists anyway, let's swap it for something else and giggle while the mass drivers eject the sentinel spam from reality.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5712
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Posted - 2014.12.11 19:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I always assumed it was there so they would better resist grenades that people throw while breaching an enclosed objective?
getting shot at by a gunnlogi has more to do with it. remember the silly little fluff line about Sentinels being set up to go toe to toe with vehicles?
Yeah.
But tank guns have been neutered against infantry. right now only the mass driver is really affected because even a bricked AmSent can usually get out of a nade radius
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5713
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Posted - 2014.12.11 20:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Also hit the HMG dps with the bat (1/3rd of current dps), and double the range.
1/3rd of the current DPS drops it below every other weapon in the game. How do you think this is a good idea?
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5714
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Posted - 2014.12.11 21:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:True Adamance wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Thought about it for a bit and realized that the splash resistance to sentinels was primarily for fighting tanks... Which mostly no longer do splash. Missile tanks aren't HORRIBLE for fighting infantry... But they aren't great either.
I'll still scare off an ADS before he ever drops a killshot on me.
And since REs seem to bypass the splash resists anyway, let's swap it for something else and giggle while the mass drivers eject the sentinel spam from reality. I demand then that Sentinels have their correct racial resistance profiles. Amarr 3% per level resistance to explosive damage, and 2% to projectile. I'm guessing the logic was "Welp we have 4 suits and screwed up by making 5 damage types....we can't have one particular damage type being resisted by more or fewer suits so uh....um.....make them all resist splash damage to cover most of the explosive damage?"
I wouldn't be shocked.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5715
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Posted - 2014.12.11 22:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
I wouldn't be shocked.
Can't tell you how many times I've flipped my desk over with a "F*CK 5 DAMAGE TYPES!" it makes it too damn hard to come up with proper bonuses for a lot of the suits/vehicles/weapons. Technically there are only 4. Explosive, Kinetic, Thermal, and EM. However missiles can apply oddly apply whichever kind of damage type they wish........ ammunition damage profiles as you know are only made up of varying allotments of these damage types.
Now if only DUST used those four instead of five profiles? We'd be golden.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5716
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Posted - 2014.12.11 22:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
and yet there was a need to add the projectile profile.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5723
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Posted - 2014.12.12 10:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:HMG should have a similar DPS to a rifle, but fire _further_ away than rifles IMO.
Motivation: A bigger mass fired with high power will reach longer than a small mass fired with less power.
You could put them at range with nearly the DPS they have now with turn speed penalty on the gun itself. Tat way if a sentinel wants to stay alive he best keep assaults outside 20m and scouts outside 25-30 or he gets eaten.
Heavy armor and shield defenses only make sense on a unit that expects to be caught outside of cover a lot where it is guaranteed to take fire.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5728
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Posted - 2014.12.12 20:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:HMG should have a similar DPS to a rifle, but fire _further_ away than rifles IMO.
Motivation: A bigger mass fired with high power will reach longer than a small mass fired with less power. You could put them at range with nearly the DPS they have now with turn speed penalty on the gun itself. Tat way if a sentinel wants to stay alive he best keep assaults outside 20m and scouts outside 25-30 or he gets eaten. Heavy armor and shield defenses only make sense on a unit that expects to be caught outside of cover a lot where it is guaranteed to take fire. Or just implement the LR falloff mechanism, HMG can only do good damage far away i.e 100% dps >20m away. Turn speed can be bypassed with a high DPI mouse and/or GIMX very easily.
You will never stop someone from using hardware. Balance the game for the game. Balancing based on outliers screws the regular players more than it hinders people who run hardware solutions.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5728
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Posted - 2014.12.12 20:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:The inevitable problem with all of these proposals is that it doesnt address the core philosophy of how the HMG sentinel became OP in the first place. If the HMG is the irrefutable king of CQC, then what is it's counter? Why use anything else if the HMG is the irrefutable king? Its fairly obvious to see that this mentality has run rampant, just look at any match which has Gallente Research sockets. The buildings often have one or two openings, compete cover from Orbitals, and the only way you're getting in there when it has five HMG heavies is with your own HMG heavies. Mass drivers, grenades, etc qre less effective due to their resistances, as are pretty much any other weapon.
So, if the Heavy community can answer the above question without saying, "Herp derp Shotgun Cloak Scouts" or "Herp derp long range", then they remain OP.
Everything should have multiple counters, even in its own environment ,especially when its as powerful as an HMG Sentinel.
the maps preclude the native sentinel killing weapons access. Most of them require distance. of particular note is the charge sniper.
You sure see a lot of THOSE in CQC.
Outliers like forge guns and plasma cannon don't have enough distance in CQC to charge and line up a second shot.
Hell even a magsec at 35 meters is more likely to kill the sentinel than the reverse (I have done this in a freefit calassault, it was HILARIOUS).
But because the useful areas of most maps are clustered in with very few open ranged attack points Sentinels are not frequently exposed to things meant to execute them.
Remember the old manus peak? The HMG was borderline worthless there, but the forge gun rocked. but the maps have changed to provide sentinels more places to hide from the things that kill them as fast as they kill assaults.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5766
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Posted - 2014.12.15 08:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dream on pubbie scum
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
6193
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Posted - 2015.01.08 08:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:From my experience, the heavy is quite easy for me to kill. Even if I don't catch him off guard, I can either finish him or escape a 1v1 with decent survival rate. The problem is that many points requitlre me to fight inside, where a heavy is supposed to shine. Move points to outside, and you'll see heavy use drop.
My assertion has little to do with ease of dying. In my experience the normal tactic of attacking sentinels involves running in a straight line right at him while shooting. People get confused when their "tactical brilliance" fails them.
My assertion is more that without significant danger from vehicle splash that particular feature adds little play value to the game besides marginalizing the utility of normal weapons that would otherwise be used as support and breaching tools.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
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Posted - 2015.01.08 10:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:I though the splash resistance isnt working anyway?  simply fix, give them heavy weapon fitting reduction.
Doesn't work. Heavies already have fitting reduction because their pg/cpu was dumped to make it harder to fit light weapons and a full hp tank.
Further the resistance only fails versus remote explosives. It's applying correctly against things like plc mass driver and nades.
All this idea would do is make sentinels able to fit every slot proto, which would simply shift certain issues elsewhere.
In short it would be a bandaid.
A better role bonus could easily be found that doesn't increase sentinel tankability or damage output. Honestly one of the things I'd suggest would be scan range. The reason is threefold.
Disclaimer: I do not advocate the decrease of sentinel profile or scan db under any circumstances. Leave the precision and stealth to the scouts and logis. It's extremely hard to fit a detection sentinel. It should remain hard.
Reasoning as follows.
1. Defensive units need to not be blind.
2. Two of the sentinels can never afford range enhancers on their fits due to low slot counts. Even a caldari sentinel cannot drop it's precision low enough to spot a reasonably damped assault or scout. If this proved untrue, the calsent will still not be able to detect them until they are within killing range. Sentinel inner circles are tiny.
3. Two of the sentinels cannot detect anything but undamped assaults and logi no matter if you fill their highs with precision.
Which leaves sentinels sacrificing tank for detection, which means less bricky crap, or sacrificing kincats. Which in turn makes them more vulnerable to incoming fire.
I know people want to keep ewar to logis and scouts but this would make a sentinel more dangerous in the hands of a thinker and less of a blind rhino role, which is the place we are at now.
Playing a sentinel only really requires thought and planning when you run AV without support. I'd like to see more thought than CHARRRRRRRGE!
a little bit of tactical flexibility could work wonders. Plus to my knowledge sentinels do not share scans with the squad.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Posted - 2015.01.08 15:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
To clarify I'd make the bonuses to module efficiency not base suit efficiency.
But if passives are shared passives are shared.
But ewar should be viable for any suit.
Just not at the level of scouts. Enough to be functional.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Posted - 2015.01.08 15:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Woulda, coulda shoulda.
we don't have that. We have to play the hand we have been dealt.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Posted - 2015.01.08 16:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
If I recall both weapons were also nerfed about when the resists got added.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Posted - 2015.01.08 18:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:
I think it was added because Grenades and Mass Drivers were killing Sentinels everything too efficiently.
FTFY. Though I don't recall specifically whether or periods of MD spam overlapped with periods of Core Locus Nade spam.
It was peppered here and there before both hit critical mass.
Nades got the axe first. MDs ate the bullet right about 1.7 right alongside the rifle nerfs. This would have been hunky-dory were it not for the splash resists.
Honestly sentinels qualify as the suit most frequently buggered up. Rattati has come closer to balancing the stupid thing than just about anyone.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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